September 12, 2021

Jana Osofsky is a Pinterest Marketing Strategist at Jana O. Media. In today’s interview, I interview her about how online business owners can use Pinterest to gain free traffic to their funnels, websites and offers.

Additionally, Jana shares her journey to create and launch her successful evergreen course about using Pinterest to grow your organic traffic.

Watch the video of my interview with Jana or read the transcript below!

Links

Jana O. Media Jana’s Free Pinterest Masterclass Pinterest Deadline Funnel

Transcript

Jack Born: Hey, everyone, this is Jack Born. I’m the founder of Deadline Funnel, and I’m very excited to have with me Jana Osofsky, and she is a Pinterest expert. So, Jana, great to have you here.

Jana Osofsky: Oh, thank you so much for being here. I’ve been looking forward to our conversation and excited to be here.

Jack Born: So I wanted to bring you on because we recently reached out to our clients and said, “Hey, we’re looking for some additional success stories and also to share with our audience what you’re doing in your business, and various different things that have worked for you.” So I really want to open it up to you and have you kick things off. So can you tell us about who you serve, how you serve your audience, and back us up and share a little bit of your journey of what you were doing before you had this online business?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, oh, absolutely. For sure. Yeah, so nowadays, and for the past six years or so, I’ve been a Pinterest marketing strategist. So my background in business was in corporate human resources, corporate marketing, like corporate communications, basically. And when I moved from the northern part of the country down to Florida, I made some changes, decided that I wanted to do things a little differently. So I worked locally in sales for a little while.

And then, at one point, decided, based on just life circumstances, that I really wanted to have a location independent business. I didn’t wanna be tied to a certain spot, so I started an online business. I was initially doing content marketing support in general. And pretty quickly fell into this niche of Pinterest marketing, because I had a client right in the beginning when I first got started online who was using Pinterest at the time. And this was like six years ago. She was pioneering at the time. She’s an online coach and a course creator as well. And she was using Pinterest to generate the vast majority of leads and traffic and course sales and whatnot. And so when I got behind the scenes of her business, I was like, “What is going on here?” And I picked my jaw up off the floor after I double-checked to make sure that what I was seeing was right.

And yes, indeed, Pinterest was what was driving all of this, so I kind of became really excited about learning all about it. Did that. Took on some additional clients to get some more experience with implementing Pinterest marketing strategies, mostly for online coaches at the time. Yeah, and the rest is kind of history as far as my business.

For the last six years now, I’ve been working with online coaches, mostly in the health and wellness niches, but also in some of the other coaching niches as well, relationships, parenting, things like that, to help them to use Pinterest for lead generation, to actually attract ideal clients to their content and right to their digital doorsteps, essentially, using Pinterest. So I did done-for-you services for quite some time. I also started offering intensives. And then, at a certain point, a few years ago in my journey, I decided to create a course. So I instilled everything that I know and everything that I’ve learned about strategies that work on Pinterest for online coaches and course creators and service-based businesses into this course so that more people could access it and I could have these more leveraged offers. And that’s kind of where the whole, like, that’s – Around that time is when I started looking at different tech that could help me to sell my course. So, yeah, that kind of brings you up to speed to where I am now, as far as the journey and how I ended up being a course creator. And I can share a little bit about how that whole course creation, selling an online course thing went in the beginning, and how I learned how to do it better a little bit here and there along the way as well.

Jack Born: Yeah, I definitely wanna get to that part of the story. But first, I know that for myself, I’ve never used Pinterest for marketing. I would imagine a big percentage of our audience, although they’ve heard of Pinterest, isn’t actively using Pinterest as one of their main ways of getting clients. So can you just share a little bit about like, who would you say Pinterest is for? Is there anyone that it wouldn’t be for?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, those are a couple of great questions about it. Yeah, a lot of the clients that I serve, the coaches, the course creators, and service-based businesses, are a little bit later to the Pinterest party if you will, which is one of the reasons why I enjoy working with them. Because a lot of them are just getting started and need the strategy in the beginning.

And so Pinterest has been used for a long time, of course, to market things like products. Originally Pinterest was well-known as a platform for people to go look for things like recipes and home decor and whatnot, but the platform has grown tremendously.

So now there are people looking on Pinterest for all different types of things: ideas, and inspiration to make their lives and their businesses better.

So it’s not just really limited to the recipes and home decor like people sometimes think. So when it comes down to like who could use Pinterest, there aren’t a lot of like niches within the coaching and course creation kind of world that I’ve discovered where you really couldn’t benefit from a Pinterest presence. But, overall, I would say that the people who are more on the B2C space, business to consumer, usually see the fastest growth and the fastest ROI from their Pinterest marketing efforts. So people who are helping other people with things in the health, wellness, relationship spaces, in the space of like the parenting spaces, dating and relationships and love. And sometimes some of the business coaches use Pinterest as well, depending on the niches that they’re serving. But I would say, overall, the B2C niches are the ones that see the fastest ROI. But most types of businesses can benefit from having some kind of marketing presence on Pinterest.

The big thing to realize with Pinterest marketing, if people are listening and they’re new to the idea, is that it’s actually a search engine.

Jack Born: Okay.

Jana Osofsky: So Pinterest is actually the third largest search engine on the internet now. It’s like, number one is Google. Number two is YouTube, and then number three is Pinterest. So our goal on Pinterest is not to use it like another social media platform, but rather to use it like another search engine. 

So we wanna essentially be pinning content that is searchable so people who are searching for the things that we offer already, the things that we create as far as our free content, our paid content, our free offers, our paid offers, we wanna get discovered by people who are already searching for those and kind of reverse engineer by using keywords on the platform to get discovered by those people. So it’s a whole different approach than people use on social media essentially, or different than social media in that way.

Jack Born: So I would imagine part of the strategies and tactics eventually bring people to an opt-in form or get people on an email list. Is that correct? Would I be correct with that?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, absolutely. So your audience, obviously, is pretty savvy to funnels, right? So I think I can safely use that language without having their eyes roll back in their heads. So yeah, I mean, in that way, it’s really all about bringing new people into your marketing ecosystem or your funnel, whatever you wanna call it. So it’s getting discovered by new people who are already searching. And then optimizing that customer journey to bring them along the path to get onto your list so that you can have all kinds of other conversations with them, for sure.

Jack Born: So is there maybe one short story that you could share of a client that you’ve worked with, or who’s gone through your course, and sort of the transformation that they’ve had from working with you?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite kind of case studies or client stories comes from a health coach that I have worked with now for about 3 1/2 years, I would say, through different phases of her Pinterest marketing journey, if you wanna call it that. So she came to me, I think in 2019 I wanna say. I feel like with the pandemic, we kind of like lost a year. I say that, but it might’ve been ’18, I’m not sure. But it was a while ago. And she came to me because she has a membership; it’s specifically around hormone health. So it’s for women who are experiencing hormone imbalances, and it’s affecting their lives in different ways. So it’s a membership that she has. And, at the time, she was pretty much using Facebook ads almost exclusively to generate leads into her email list and to sell that membership on a regular basis. So she had like two cart opens per year, typically. And each time she did that, over the course of a couple of years, her Facebook ads were getting more expensive, and also, more importantly to her, more concerning to her, they were getting kind of like less reliable in terms of being able to deliver and get people into that funnel so that she could fill her group programs each year in her memberships. So when she came to me, we decided that we were gonna try to start building up this Pinterest profile that would drive her free traffic so she could be less dependent on those Facebook ads. But over the course of about a year, by building up her profile and making sure we were bringing people into a funnel that was working well for her, we were actually able to get her to the point where, in the first quarter of 2020 I wanna say, she actually stopped doing her Facebook ads altogether. At that point, she was getting enough leads just from her Pinterest traffic into her funnel, believe it or not, free Pinterest traffic. She hadn’t even done any ads at that point yet on Pinterest. In that one quarter, we got about 8,400 and something leads for her just exclusively from Pinterest. And she converted enough of those leads through her funnel so that she sold out her entire group program that year. Didn’t run any Facebook ads, only sold it from her traffic from Pinterest primarily. So it was a pretty good success story for her. I think it’s a great one for me, too, because it makes me happy to be able to know that I’m helping people to help others. It’s that entrepreneur ripple effect that I think some of us experience when we see the successes of our clients and also the successes of our client’s clients, and understand that we’re really helping people through what we do. So, yeah, that’s like one of my favorite, I’d say, case studies about how Pinterest marketing really came through to really support a business that’s supporting others, I’d say. I like that one.

Jack Born: First of all, great story. And I know several of our audience members’ ears just perked up, and I definitely wanna send them your way. But before we get into how someone can find more about you, is your course focused primarily on the free side, the paid side, or is it a mix of both?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, so my course is exclusively just based on organic strategies only. I don’t teach anything in there about Promoted Pins. We call them Promoted Pins; they’re ads on Pinterest. So my practice as well, I just do organic. I refer clients who are interested in up-leveling and doing the paid side of things to a colleague of mine that does Pinterest ads.

Jack Born: This might not even be the right question, but one of the things that’s bubbling up in my mind is, how much time should someone be expecting to put into this, whether it’s their time or their team’s time?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, so there’s kind of two kind of versions of that question that I get sometimes. One is like, “How long is this gonna take to produce results,” right?

Jack Born: Okay, yep.

Jana Osofsky: And then the other one is, “How much of a time commitment is this once we are up and running?” So the first answer is a lot harder to answer because it’s different for everyone. And every niche is different. And every person’s audience is different. And where they’re coming at from in terms of how long they’ve been using Pinterest is different. But the big factor, and again, I know you’ll appreciate this and your audience will appreciate this too, is that Pinterest just brings you traffic. So it just brings people into your marketing ecosystem. And it’s pretty much cold traffic because it’s a search engine. So you’re bringing people in who otherwise probably wouldn’t have found you and are brand new to you. There’s not really any ‘like, know, and trust’, usually for most of these people, which we love ’cause we love bringing new people into our marketing ecosystem or a funnel, but you do have to have a pretty good performing funnel in order to see fast results. And Pinterest, even if you have a high-performing funnel, it definitely will take at least three or four months in the beginning with an organic strategy of consistently, first of all, setting things up strategically, which is what my course teaches. And then, consistently pinning to build that audience and to build that trust with the platform before it’ll really start producing results for you. And then, of course, producing results means bringing you people, but what you do with those people is another story, right? You have to have that customer journey or that funnel in place to actually convert them from finding you on Pinterest to actually becoming paid customers at some point.

Jack Born: So as you’re putting in that work, is that work going to be evergreen forever and ever? So in other words, let’s say a year later, are you still getting the benefit of the work that you did a year ago or are you constantly pinning and creating content?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, I would say it’s a little bit of both, in the sense that it is a search engine and people do find your pins in their searches and smart feeds for months and years after you pin them. So in that regard, it’s an evergreen thing that you’re building and you’re kind of building a snowball that gets bigger and bigger over time, which is fantastic. But at the same time, the platform Pinterest does want fresh content. So the algorithm does favor accounts that are regularly creating and pinning fresh content. And you can pin things that you have already created on other platforms, like blog posts, podcast episodes, YouTube videos, things like that. And you can also create Idea Pins on the platform, which is content that lives right on the platform. So I do recommend to people that, even once they’ve set things up strategically, if they wanna keep seeing results and seeing that snowball snowball that they do keep creating fresh content and adding that to the platform. So it’s a little bit of both. But I would say that, overall, it’s not as much of a hungry beast as social media is. Because one of the things that’s, I dunno, kind of frustrating about social media I think for a lot of people is just how fast your posts get lost in that fast moving newsfeed. Whereas on Pinterest, people do find your pins in their searches and their smart feeds for months and years. And it’s much less based on recency and more based on relevancy and quality of content.

Jack Born: Great, that’s exactly what I was asking. Thank you.

Jana Osofsky: Yeah.

Jack Born: Let’s bring it back to your journey in your own business. What I heard you say was that you went from doing one-on-one work, and then you did some masterclasses, right?

Jana Osofsky: Mhmm.

Jack Born: Or some workshops. And then, eventually, you worked your way towards a course. Talk us through, so when you launched your course, was it something that you co-created with your audience? In other words, getting feedback and asking questions. Or did a lot of the content come from your workshops? Give us a sense because for anyone listening who’s working on launching their course, I know that there’s a few schools of thought. One is you wanna co-create it, pre-sell it, et cetera. And another one is you should really know your topic, go build it, and then launch it to the world. Which one did you do?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, I would say my model was more the latter. I had been doing the done-for-you work and had created dozens and dozens of profiles and was working with a team that was managing those profiles. So I really knew the strategies and the work like the back of my hand.

Actually, I didn’t start doing workshops. I started doing one-to-one intensives where I was actually teaching on a one-to-one basis most of the main concepts that were going into the course. So between the done-for-you work and then the one-to-one work, I was in a place in my business where I felt very much ready to create the course. I knew what people wanted. I had been listening, social listening, for quite a while and talking with clients, having so many conversations about what they needed and what they wanted to learn and what parts of the process felt sticky for them, so that I could help them get over those sticky parts in the course.  

So I went right for it and I created the course, and I created a webinar as well, based on what was in the course and what I had been teaching clients in the one-to-one programs. And pretty much went right for putting that on evergreen. And like you said, there are different schools of thought. I’m not sure I would recommend that to everyone, but I did it that way. And I’m glad I did, because for me that worked well. I was one of those people who really wanted to shift into this model that was more leveraged based on the type of marketing that I like to do and the way I wanted to spend my days. So I went right for that evergreen model.

And in the beginning, it was slow. I wasn’t selling as many courses as I wanted to, which is definitely one of the reasons why I ended up moving in the direction of creating a funnel, of course. And yeah, so that’s kinda how I came at it and where I started. In the beginning, I was only selling like a few units every month, which to me, it wasn’t reaching my goals. So I needed to make a change to that process, which is when I decided to build the course funnel.

Jack Born: Yeah, I can imagine that that must’ve been a little bit disheartening to put all that work into it and to know the value that you can deliver, and the value that your clients were getting, and you create the course and things aren’t taking off as quickly as you wanted them to. So what did you do next? How did you try to fix that?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, I have to say, I think probably because in my own business I served coaches and course creators, so I did know a little bit about what I was getting into. I wasn’t as disheartened maybe as if I had not gone into it realizing that this was a challenging thing to do. You know what I mean?

Jack Born: Yeah.

Jana Osofsky: Like I knew what I was up against. I also knew that Pinterest as a thing, and I think everybody thinks their thing is special, but mine’s really special in the sense that it’s the type of thing where a lot of people know the power of it. And they’re hearing through the grapevine that other people in their space are getting leads there, and they hear the success stories and they want a part of it. But at the same time, it’s super easy for people to back-burner it, because it’s like a stepchild kind of platform. So when it comes down to it, I hear people say all the time like, “I really, really want those juicy results from Pinterest, and at some point I’ll get to it.” You know what I mean?

Jack Born: Yeah, right.

Jana Osofsky: Like “one of these days after I’ve mastered every other platform, I’ll come around to Pinterest.” So I think that that contributed somewhat too to not selling as many units as I wanted to, and not impacting as many people as I wanted to. So I actually hired a funnel strategist. And I hired her knowing that we were going into about a one year process, where she and her team would be building and testing this funnel with me and optimizing it as we went. And I know these days, sometimes when I tell someone that it took me a year to build my funnel they’re like, “What? I could build you a funnel in like a month.” You know what I mean?

Jack Born: Mmhmm.

Jana Osofsky: And I’m like, “That’s great,” but this process was super thorough. We did testing and optimization and whatnot. And when I hired her, one of the things she helped me do was to evaluate and compare different tech stacks. And I knew that because of my experience with course creators and my experience with Pinterest, “the stepchild platform that everybody will get around to someday”, I knew that it was gonna be really important for the success of my funnel to build in a sense of urgency. And that’s one of the reasons why when she and I had our strategy call where we kind of weighed all the pros and the cons and whatnot, why Deadline Funnel came into the conversation. ‘Cause I told her that that was a concern of mine. So yeah, that was where that came in. And I’ve been really happy with overall the performance of my funnel.

And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told people who say, “How do I build a funnel?”, I’ve always said to them, “Whatever you do, make sure you build in a sense of urgency, and here’s one way you can do that.” I’ve found that that’s really been, I think, the key to the conversion rates that I’ve seen most recently that I’ve been happy with. So that’s my story.

Jack Born: That’s awesome. Thank you for spreading the word.

Jana Osofsky: Oh yeah, for sure.

Jack Born: Can you share a little bit about, I don’t want you to share anything you don’t feel comfortable sharing, but are there any stats or any sort of sense of how much it improved once you started using Deadline Funnel?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, for sure. So during that one year period where we were building the funnel, and that was everything from the creative to the tech and all that kind of stuff, by the end of that period we had tested the funnel with my existing list. And using Deadline Funnel, we had gotten to the point where I was converting at a 2.5% conversion rate for my webinar funnel. So that was really great. And I came out of the testing phase and started driving more traffic to that funnel.

And actually I went through a period of time where that rate went down a little bit. And then I actually recently, in the last six months or so, remeasured. And I’m actually, believe it or not, I’m converting right now at about 4.5%, which is great. I kind of think some of that has to do with the fact that I’ve shifted some of my marketing efforts, and I’m spending a lot of time on Clubhouse right now. So if anyone is listening to this and going, “Oh, really, another interview about Clubhouse?”, we won’t get into it too much.

But I’ve found that I’ve grown my list significantly in there and developed a very, very warm audience, ’cause they’re people who are listening to me speak and teach. And so I think that’s one of the reasons why that has increased a lot. One thing that was a little interesting that some of your viewers might be interested in hearing about is that my funnel agency built me two funnels during that time, and we use Deadline Funnel for both. One of them was a webinar funnel, and one was a quiz funnel.

Jack Born: Okay.

Jana Osofsky: And the webinar funnel is the one that ended up converting really well and still converts to this day very well. But I actually found that the quiz funnel really didn’t convert into sales at the beginning at all, which is interesting ’cause you live and you learn, right?

You figure these things out as you go. So we made some adjustments to figure out where that could fit into my business, and I’m still using it. But the webinar funnel is the one that converted and the quiz funnel, not so much. 

Jack Born: Thank you for sharing that.

Jana Osofsky: Yeah.

Jack Born: Are there any tips that you can give for someone who’s going to put together their own webinar? Because I get a strong sense from you that there’s a lot of hard charging. A lot of the people that would be teaching you, “Here’s what you need to do in a webinar,” even though I haven’t seen your webinar, I’m gonna guess that you probably have your own way of doing that, and you let your own personality and authenticity shine through. So what would you share in terms of balancing not sacrificing sales and conversion ’cause you wanna have that impact and you wanna bring in clients, but at the same time you don’t wanna sound like someone that you’re not. So how did you walk that tightrope?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, that’s interesting. I would say that is a fine line. So I was fortunate enough to have my, as I mentioned, the funnel strategist and her agency backing me up on this. So I was able to, I think, take a couple of my initial impulses, if you will, and put them up against like her feedback. And she definitely encouraged me to make sure that I stuck a little bit closer to the format that she had originally kind of laid out for me.

For example, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to set up the value, what is it the value ladder I think that you add at the end? Where you’re talking about the value of each of the pieces and how this all adds up to a lot more than you pay kind of thing.

But I did end up doing that and I’m glad that I did, ’cause I get good feedback on it. But I think really when I went and sat down to record, I think that just leaning into using my own voice and a little bit of humor here and there, and almost poking a little bit of fun at the whole webinar, I don’t know, webinar tone or whatnot that some people set up. And also knowing that I was going straight to evergreen, and that this would be something that people will be watching and that they would know was not a live webinar was also important. That was part of my decision about my tech stack, too. I didn’t wanna do one of those like pretending to be a live webinar types of things. But I poked a little fun at that during it. And I wasn’t afraid to say something and then kind of laugh at my own thing as I was saying it. So I think it feels fairly organic, and it balances out the parts of the webinar that might seem a little bit cookie-cutter to people. So my personality does shine through, and I let it shine through. And I didn’t go back and re-record the whole thing in an effort to sort of cut out the parts where I fumbled a little bit over the words or whatnot. Instead, I just left that there, and I think in retrospect that really helped. But, overall, I’d say that I’m bringing people into that funnel who’ve already heard me teach and speak in a lot of ways. So they already kind of know what they’re getting to some degree.

So I feel like if it’s not perfect, they’re already okay with that. And I might as well lean into that as opposed to trying to make it seem too polished or too salesy in that way. So I don’t know if that answers your question, but that’s kind of where I get that balance I think.

Jack Born: Oh, it does. So the people that you’re bringing into the webinar, it sounds like you’re saying that they’ve really gone through a lot of your free content first before they’re going into the webinar. Is that a fair assessment? Or are you also advertising in a way that brings people directly who are just hearing about you for the first time into your webinar?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, I think it’s a little bit of both. And I think that’s actually the beauty of a webinar in a lot of ways, is you can actually use it successfully to convert colder audiences, or you can use it successfully to convert warmer audiences. So I’ve gone through a couple of different iterations and trying different platforms and whatnot. So I think depending on what season of business I was in, I was bringing in some warmer audience and some colder. And in both cases, that webinar converted at different rates. A webinar can work for both audiences in my opinion. And I think mine has done well with both. Does that answer your question?

Jack Born: Yeah, it does. Before I ask people how they can find you and sign up for your webinar, I wanted to ask so when someone joins your course, is it learn at your own pace? Is it more cohort-based? Is there a community? What sort of resources are there on the backend?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, so it’s really learn at your own pace. It is quite comprehensive and very like step, by step, by step, by step.

There are a couple of places in the course where I have discovered through talking to people who’ve taken the course and seeing where people stopped and how far they got through the course and whatnot, there are a couple of places that are kind of the most obvious places where people sometimes fall off or hit a challenge. They like hit a bump that they aren’t able to get over themselves. Not all of them, but some of them.

So by identifying those areas, I do offer some upgrades to like paid calls and strategy calls with me that accomplish certain specific pieces. So, for example, there’s a section on keyword research in the course. And some people love keyword research, and it clicks for them and their brain thinks that way, and that’s great. And they just needed me to show them the system and the different tools within the platform to do the keyword research. Show them how to organize it; show them how to map those keywords, and they’re good to go. But other people just don’t think in terms of keywords. It’s just not the way their brains work. So I offer an opportunity for people to work directly with me as really like an upsell within that course. And it’s there as an upsell and that helps me with my revenue to some degree, but really it’s there to help make sure that if people do hit that speed bump and need my help over it that there’s an option to do that. But I don’t have any like community right now, or like any kind of Facebook community or whatnot. So far the way that things have been going, I am able to support people’s one-off questions up to a certain point. And then if their questions become too specific or too detailed, they can jump on a call with me and I can help them to navigate that from there. But those calls are paid. So it works out pretty well. I think it serves people at different stages.

Because, again, if they can think that way and do it on their own, then that’s great. And they have the course as a resource, and I update the course regularly. But if they need help over those speed bumps, there is access to me to be able to get past them.

Jack Born: Awesome, so for everyone interested in learning more and getting on your list and possibly joining your webinar, how can they find you?

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, it’s so meta, it’s funny.

Yeah, if anyone’s interested in learning about Pinterest, really just Pinterest basics, my webinar, I call it my free Pinterest masterclass, is at janaomedia.com/freeclass. And it’s called “The Five Secrets for Using Pinterest to Grow Your Audience on Autopilot and Get Clients.”

So it really is specifically designed for my audience who are coaches, course creators, service-based businesses, who wanna use Pinterest to get clients. And it really helps people to basically do two things. 

Number one, evaluate whether Pinterest is the right platform for them. And so I show you some different things to help you figure that out. And then it also is there to basically tell people and explain and show people how Pinterest is different than social media so that if they do decide to invest time in learning how to do it and implementing it that they’re coming at it understanding that Pinterest needs to be approached as a search engine, not social media and exactly what that means. I did that so that, ideally for the right people, it’ll cut through some of that frustration that people sometimes experience in the beginning with Pinterest, where they jump in and try to start using it like social media. And then they’re like, “Wait, how does this work?” So it gets you to the point where you really understand that. And it’ll help you to basically not waste time and get frustrated and then throw your hands up in the air and give up. So that’s what it’s there to teach people and help people with. And yeah, like I said, it’s at janaomedia.com/freeclass.

Jack Born: Fantastic, and we’ll put a link in the notes below this video.

Jana Osofsky: Amazing, thanks.

Jack Born: Yeah, absolutely. So this has really, really been great. Any final words of advice for new course creators?

Jana Osofsky: You know, I would say that, and I know this is a conversation with a guy who knows about funnels and a guy who knows about the value of creating that sense of urgency, and in the appropriate ways and in the appropriate places in your funnel. But I would just say figure out a way to offer some kind of LTO, which is a limited-time offer, and put it on autopilot. Deadline Funnel is a great way to do that. Because that, to me, when I look at my numbers and I look through my revenue every month, when I look at my Teachable account and I see what’s going on, almost all of my sales are coming through that funnel that has that limited time offer associated with it. And I just know that if I had not addressed that and really put something into place that would create that urgency for people, that I would not be as happy with my results right now. So I would just say really make sure you take time to understand what that sense of urgency brings and create a great limited-time offer that someone is really gonna attach to and want so that they’ll make that purchase.

Jack Born: Awesome, thank you so much. Thank you for the kind words. And thank you for spending the time with me, and sharing your journey, and sharing your wisdom. It’s been great. I know this will be valuable for our audience.

Jana Osofsky: Oh, I’m so glad to hear that. Thanks for listening to all my talking about it. It’s exciting. I love talking about it, so I appreciate your time, too.

Jack Born: And just like you were talking about your clients, I love hearing your success story because I know not only are we impacting you, we’re impacting all the people that you’re able to reach. And so that’s fantastic.

Jana Osofsky: Totally.

Jack Born: Thank you so much for your time.

Jana Osofsky: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks.