October 16, 2021

Kelly Trach is a 4x entrepreneur, business coach, and author. As a business coach, Kelly helps visionaries find their genius and monetize it so that they can build digital businesses.

In today’s interview, I interview her about finding your genius, using quizzes to grow your email list and more.

Watch the video of my interview with Kelly or read the transcript below!

Links

“P.S. You’re a Genius” by Kelly Trach Deadline Funnel

Transcript

Jack Born: Hey, everyone. This is Jack Born. I’m the founder of Deadline Funnel, and I’m here with a special guest who has some exciting news that we’ll be talking about soon. So this is, I’m here with Kelly Trach. So Kelly, great to have you here.

Kelly Trach: Thanks so much for having me, Jack. I super appreciate it.

Jack Born: Yeah, absolutely. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your business and your origin story, who you serve and we’ll slowly work our way towards some of the big news that you have coming up.

Kelly Trach: Yeah, so I work as a business coach, and I help people find their genius and monetize it and turn it into digital businesses where they sell one-on-one services and online courses. And I always like to say that I, if I saw what I was doing in a crystal ball in like grade 10, I’d be like, “What? I don’t think I’d end up here.” I was always like your typical overachiever in high school. I did all the things. I went to one of Canada’s best business schools. At the end of my time in business school, I had two job offers. I wasn’t stoked about either one of them, and I was like, “well, what have I always wanted to do that I could do now I’m young?” So I was like, “let me move to San Francisco and try building a tech startup.” I got into a fancy pre-accelerator program, and startup one fails. And I was like, “that’s fine. Let me try again.” Startup two failed. And then I had startup three that also failed. And I kind of had this “aha” moment. I was taking a week-long vacation in back to Canada, and I was in the middle of, in this cabin, in the middle of the woods in kind of nowhere where the wifi is not good. And I had this intuitive thought just sort of pop in my brain. And it was just, “what if you just did what you were good at?” Like what if you just lean into the things that you were naturally good at and tried to build a business around that? And that question really caught me off guard because it was never something I had ever considered before. And I was always pushing myself to do the hardest, craziest challenges and go for these big things and really push myself. And I thought, “well, that’s not really working because these startups are failing, so what if I lean into what’s easy and what’s natural to me?” And then it sort of brought the question of like, what are those things for me? ‘Cause I don’t even know. And I kind of indirectly stumbled upon figuring out my gifts and what I was good at. And at the time, my business has taken many pivots, but at the time it was a little kind of health blog and that kind of had turned more into mindset, mindset coaching, life coaching stuff. And then people started saying, “well, hey, Kelly, you have a established business and a website and coaching packages and online courses and a podcast. You have customers. Can you show me how to do this?” And I thought, “Oh no, like you don’t want my help. Like I have all these failed startups.” And I was “Okay, I’ll try once. I’ll do business coaching for one client,” and then kind of the rest was history. And that sort of the thing that people kept coming to me for and the thing that I was naturally good at. And it was easy for me, and I had experience. And it was one of those things that had it taken me time to get there. But yeah, I ended up landing on business coaching, and I’ve been doing that for the last three years full time as a business coach helping people find their genius and monetize it and turn what they can only uniquely do into a business model. So that’s kind of how I ended up here.

Jack Born: That’s amazing. And I’m really, really impressed. And I want to give you a big kudos about not giving up on your overall dream. Like, you know, you have these several failed businesses. A lot of people would have quit there, and you persisted on. Can you talk about, maybe talk about a little bit of, you know, what were some of the things that maybe come natural to you, but might’ve stopped other people? Like, is there anything mindset-wise that you teach other people that you might’ve learned in going through that process?

Kelly Trach: You know I had a mentor in that pre-accelerator program that had said “the faster you go through a hundred ideas, the faster you get to a billion dollars.” And I always thought about that being so fascinating through like this concept of, if you just kind of keep going through things and you keep going through ideas, like you’re going to hit one. And it’s okay. Almost like normalizing that process of failure and being okay with sometimes that uncertainty, that was always a phrase that really stuck with me.

Jack Born: Yeah. So let’s talk about the people that you currently now serve in helping to bring, helping them turn their genius into, I would imagine it’s oftentimes a personal brand. Is there a certain niche that you find a lot of your clients are in or is it, can you talk to that?

Kelly Trach: Yeah, so I would say that I work with a lot of like folks who are building heart-centered businesses around sort of their soul’s calling, and they’re specifically wanting to build businesses that are a hundred percent digital. They want to sell services online, as well as online courses and sort of build up expertise in one domain. I usually attract a much more like spiritual community or folks interested in self-development, a lot of like life coaches, money coaches, health coaches, that kind of nature. But it’s usually folks who are also transitioning from usually a corporate world and want to really do something creative and heart-centered and what’s really in alignment with them and usually share their lessons and what they’ve learned through their trials and tribulations and turning that into like a service or a course.

Jack Born: So, what is the journey for someone look like? Is it six months of working with you and your team? Is it going through online courses you’ve prepared? What is the vehicle and the journey by which you take them from where they are to where they want to be?

Kelly Trach: Yeah, I offer a variety of like a couple different coaching packages and courses. The sort of the base, my signature course is called “Your Conscious Empire”, which helps people go from an idea to a full business that’s launched in three months. And we walk through like all the stages of figuring out your unique genius, validating your idea, turning that genius into an idea and making sure that there’s demand for that. Once there is, you know, moving through building out websites, services, opt-ins, email lists, social media, all that kind of stuff, launching, sales, consult calls, and then moving on to bigger stuff down the road for later past three months of like what it looks like to run webinars, if you want, how to like launch an online course, essentially a business sort of in a box and how you build that out in three months, in a step-by-step way. That’s sort of like my main signature offer. But in terms of helping people, most people are usually curious about that initial square one of “what’s my genius? What can I turn into a business?” And that is just a three-hour call with me of running through my framework, called the Genius Framework that I teach in my book, “PS: You’re A Genius,” helping them figure out what only they can uniquely do, and then turning that into a business model and services and offerings. And I’ve done it so many times that I can kind of like whip it up pretty quick, but it’s like, yeah, it’s a three hour call with me.

Jack Born: So you just happened to mention this new book that’s coming out, so that’s the news. So the book is currently on pre-order, currently on your website, cool. So give the title again and then let’s talk about a little bit about what’s in the book.

Kelly Trach: Yeah, so it’s called “P.S. You’re A Genius: An Unconventional Guide To Finding Your Innate Gifts (Even When You Feel Like You Have None)”, and it is designed as a self-reflective journey to figure out essentially what I would call your genius, aka, what is that thing that’s truly world-class that only you can uniquely do? And how can you turn that into a business? A side hustle? A career? It’s designed to be, there’s sort of four main parts of the book. The first is figuring out your gifts, because I really believe if you find your top three to five gifts, like truly those innate talents that you have and you put them together and use them all at once, you can create this genius byproduct. But the key thing is to use those talents at once. So I walk you through 10 kind of unconventional questions to figure out what those gifts are in part one. Then we move into blending them together to figure out your genius and flushing out next steps to doing your genius in real time, whether that’s like starting a business or pivoting in your career. There’s tips if you’re like still in high school or whatever. With publishing, you want to hit all the demographics. And then I really think the most impactful chapters and parts is part three and part four. So part three is kind of going through ditching the doubts that hold you back. So when you find your unique genius, your unique gifts going through things like “I’m not good enough”, or “I can’t make money doing that”, or “somebody is already doing it better than me so I can’t”, or “I need perfect conditions before I start” and kind of working through those mindset blocks that hold us back from being our most vibrant, bright self. And then the last part, part four, is I call it “The New Playbook for Success” because I really believe that when you’re doing your genius and you’re tapped into that thing, it’s almost like you get to play by a different set of rules. ‘Cause we all know what it looks like when somebody is really in their element or in their flow. It just is like the world opens up to them and magic happens in flow in synchronicities. It’s kind of like these new rules to play by. So I teach the reader how to listen to their intuition and following those intuitive impulses, I teach a bunch of other unconventional lessons like “quitting is underrated”, “knowing when to quit and walk away”, “the concept of going for what you want, not what you think you can get” because geniuses don’t really limit themselves. They kind of go and play big. I talk about, you know, you can either be the genius or the copycat, but not both. So that’s sort of the breakdown of the book, finding your gifts, finding your genius, ditching the doubts that hold you back and then getting this sort of new playbook for success. So I’ve tried to make it as valuable and jam packed with all my knowledge as possible in one book.

Jack Born: So there’s so many different directions that we could go, but let me ask this. Is there a favorite mental model or tool that you teach in the book or you share with your clients, for people to get past the obstacles that are holding themselves back such as imposter syndrome, but you know, is there a favorite tool that you like to use?

Kelly Trach: Yeah, in terms of like the imposter syndrome and like, who am I to do this? One of my questions I love the best in terms of finding your genius is to really think about what do your idols say about you? Meaning, I always believe that what you admire in others is actually a direct reflection of your own genius. So whenever you feel like there’s folks out there that are so good or you just see people and like “that person’s just like amazing. “I would love to be like them.” Using that as a mental reminder that you have that same gift of what you, if you, I always am very cognizant of what words people use, but say, if a client is like, “I like so-and-so. This person’s an amazing teacher, service creator, online entrepreneur”, I’d be like “list five things that you love about them”. And then they’ll list five things, and it’s usually those five things or five gifts that they have inside themselves. And I think that can be such a powerful tool of reflection when you are doubting yourself, you feel like you can’t do it, just remembering that your idols exhibit that same capacity for you to do the same. ‘Cause I always believe that we’re like subconsciously drawn to the folks that have the similar genius to us and have those gifts similar to us. And we’re always pulled in that direction. So I think that can be really helpful in those moments when you feel uncertain.

Jack Born: Talk to me about your journey of writing the book. What has it been like for you, and how long ago did you start?

Kelly Trach: All in, that process took a year. So I started pitching, actually was through my quiz being so successful, my quiz called “What’s Your Genius?”, I ended up being like, “hey, this is popular. I should try”- I had actually tried to pitch for a TED Talk, and I didn’t get it. I was like, “well, I have this concept. Let me try pitching for a book”. And then I got an agent and got a book deal. But I had to really, once again, I pitched over 200 literary agents, and I got over 200 “no’s” before I got somebody that wanted to represent me for my book. So that took time. But once I got the right agent, we got a deal right away. And then it was, I had four months to write it. So all of 2020 was just me writing the book. And I really thought through a lot of, A, what have I learned in my entrepreneurial journey over the years? What have been the most impactful lessons that I’ve learned from working with clients from all over the world building up businesses, helping people find their genius and how could I turn this into something impactful for people to read? And really also listening a lot to how I described it almost as like, what message do I need to channel for like the reader that they need to hear? So I really reflected on what were those key kind of, key pieces I wish I had at the start of my journey or what’s those pieces of advice that have really made the difference in clients’ lives that I would like relay to the reader? So I had to do a lot of like self-reflection on those kinds of bits.

Jack Born: Talk to me a little bit about why you went a more traditional route with a book agent instead of self publishing. What informed that decision?

Kelly Trach: Yeah. I have done so many mediums already like in my business. I have had my podcast for five years. I’ve done membership sites, online courses. Initially, like I had said I wanted to do like a TED Talk, and I had actually, I tried to publish a book beforehand and it had been rejected. And I was like, “you know, I might as well try again.” I wanted like just a different medium. And also I’m a very goal driven person. And if you want to hit the New York times bestseller list, you have to come from a traditional publishing house. So that, based on that one thing alone, I was like, I want an opportunity to aim for the stars. And if I want that, I need to have a traditional publishing house do it. So, yeah. And I had to my other ebook or I had turned it into an ebook because I had failed to get it published, and that was fine. That was all good and dandy, but this one, I was like, this is a really special message. And I had that intuitive insight that this was like a body of work that needed to be bigger than what I could just make it, and I kind of, I wanted it to, I wanted to kind of go for the stars with it. So that’s one of the classic things. One of the lessons from the book: go for what you want, not what you think you can get. So it ended up working out.

Jack Born: That’s really cool, and you were, you are the poster child for breaking through rejection. I mean 200 “no’s”. That’s impressive. That might even beat JK Rowling’s persistence. So that’s awesome.

Kelly Trach: Thank you.

Jack Born: You mentioned a successful quiz, and I know this because you sent over some notes about your business before we started recording. Let’s pivot a little bit towards quizzes and how you’ve used that in your business. It’s things that you’ve picked up along the way, things that you’ve learned that can help other people who might be considering having books.

Kelly Trach: Yeah. Quizzes are such an amazing opt-in because it can build your list so fast. I was kind of always sort of struggling with list building, to be honest, and I had good little opt-ins and little video courses for free, but nothing that was taking off like wildfire. So I decided to kind of make a quiz on the whim, and one of the things I think is really great about quizzes is that like, the customer that takes the quiz, they feel so personally invested in taking the quiz, but they also get personalized results, meaning that when they’re getting their results back and they’re getting that opt in, they feel like you’ve given them something of high value because it’s tailored to them versus just a general opt-in that everybody gets. So it’s a really great way to start off that relationship with the customer on a really good foot, because they’re like, “oh, so-and-so has given me this like amazing result.” And it’s one of those things where if you pour the love and an energy and devotion into building a good quiz and great result pages, it can just sort of continue to just live on your site for years. And it’s how I’ve been able to grow my email list and get more eyeballs on my stuff. Because within two months of launching my quiz, I had 6,000 new subscribers and it was just such a great way to like breathe in that fresh life into your email list. And as all entrepreneurs, all of us know that that email list is so key in terms of our businesses and building that out. So that’s one of the key reasons I love to recommend that for business coaching clients is that you just get to get a great first start with your leads coming in and your potential clients, giving them personalized results and giving them something special and juicy that they just can’t just get anywhere else online. Just like a different, you know, PDF or just another different thing that they could find somewhere else.

Jack Born: So I would guess that the success of that quiz is really going to depend on, just like a book, on sort of the big idea behind it, the hook behind it, and sometimes even the language behind it, too. Is there anything that I’ve just mentioned that brings out a major point or a major lesson learned that you share with clients in terms of making their quizzes successful?

Kelly Trach: Yeah, I think it’s always good when you’re thinking title is everything and thinking about the body of work of what’s gonna go into this quiz, I’ve really thinking about, A, what goal does your ideal client want to reach and putting the name closer towards a goal that they’re trying to reach or helping them get away from a pain point that they’re trying to, you know, remove themselves from. And really thinking about your unique customer, and really think: what is maybe the thing that I could really deliver somebody an answer for that they’ve been seeking and yearning for? What special thing could I teach on or what kind of specific problem would I solve that meets them exactly where they’re at right now in their journey? And really thinking about that answer of like what little tidbit of wisdom could you deliver that would just help somebody kind of go from zero to one or have an ‘aha’ moment in their thinking or breakthrough or teach them the next sort of steps and the results that is really relayed to the work that you do and what you offer as a service provider or an entrepreneur or a course creator. And thinking about that in terms of the topic that you give your quiz on.

Jack Born: So I’m gonna put you on the spot here and ask, can you think of some examples of either, I’m sure you could think of your quiz title, but maybe also one or two other examples from clients where you feel like that’s a really good example of naming your quiz correctly for success?

Kelly Trach: Yeah. I don’t remember the exact name, but I had a client who was a money coach and it was like, what’s like the next step in kinda like your next step in building your financial plan? Essentially she had clients that were already making a significant amount of money and really had wanted to get into like investing or real estate, or like just kind of starting to get that whole financial picture together and budgeting and all that stuff. And it was like, it was really just understanding of like, what’s that next step you need to take in your personal finances that you haven’t been taking? And she had built out three result types of sort of like that beginning step of maybe just getting a budget together and just starting to put that together or the person that’s more advanced and is like, “okay, I’ve got a little bit in place, but how can I maybe start focusing more on retirement?” And then that sort of the third bucket of results of like, “I kind of have everything up and running and everything’s good, but I need more refinement” or “I want to work on this specific goal”. And giving the clients and the leads really solid deliverables and tips in those three result pages really helped her build her email list and also make sure that like those leads were being super served in terms of next steps and like tangible tips that they could do in order to get their financial house in order, or get their finances in order or grow what they want to grow. But helping them overall with the overarching goal of tackling that financial plan that is usually so hard for people. And then being really supportive with the tips that she gave.

Jack Born: I’ve seen quizzes that are 26 questions long, and I’ve seen some that are just one question long. Is there a sweet spot that usually you aim for, you steer your clients towards aiming for?

Kelly Trach: I like to recommend like 8 to 13, just to make sure that people are like enticed enough to go through, but not too long that they drop off and then don’t want to give you your email, they don’t want to give the email at the end. So I like short and sweet, I think is always better.

Jack Born: Okay. Okay. Great, great tip. So I’m going to pivot back to your work with people and helping them find their genius. So it sounds like a lot of people who come to you, they don’t know yet what their genius is. And so, because I would have thought that you were – before this call, I would’ve assumed that people would come to you and say, “okay, this is what I’m good at. Help me package this up into a group coaching class or whatever you think it should be. Help me market it. Help me take it out into the world.” But it sounds like, and correct me if I’m wrong, you’re working with people who, who have either no idea or some idea, but they need some help shaping what their genius is. Is that correct?

Kelly Trach: Yes, I’d definitely say so. Usually the folks, when I’m working with them one on one, all I ask is that you have a base idea of what you’d like to build or a couple things, and then I can pretty much build and support the rest from there. But it’s usually people who are at that square one of like, it’s usually like I’ve done a lot of personality assessments and strengths tests, but like, I’m not entirely sure on what I want to do going forward or I’m at this sort of point in my life where I want to make a big change, but I need a little bit of that sort of gumption, courage to go for it and like, reassurance that I’m on the right track. Could you just sort of help me in terms of like, in terms of like, is this really what I’m meant to be doing? Or like, are these the things that I’m really good at? So usually they either know nothing, or they know a little bit, but I mean, in terms of like helping people find their genius, it’s usually just, I always believe it’s kind of like right under the tip of your nose, but sometimes it takes a little bit of, you know, just like going through questions to just figure out that it’s there.

Jack Born: You went exactly where I was going to go next. So I remember you mentioned that in the book you have, I believe it was 10, I think you said unique or surprising questions. Can you give us a taste of one or two of these questions that you put in the book or you help, you use with your private clients to help them find their genius?

Kelly Trach: Yeah. One of my favorites is always starting off with “what’s your dream?”. And like, “what is it that you really want?” I always feel like you can tell a lot about somebody’s gifts ’cause I really believe that part of your, your genius, if you were to live out all of your biggest dreams, there’s a really good chance you’d be using all of your best gifts. So I always like to start my client calls with, like, “if you could wave your magic wand and have anything that you wanted, what would you be doing? What would your work look like? How do you think that day would go? What do you see yourself doing?” And not putting pressure on yourself to like, do all those things, but just think about it and get into that dreaming space. ‘Cause usually, I really believe that, your genius is your purpose. And if you really look at those gifts, if you look at the dream that you have, there’s a really good chance you can tease out a lot of gifts from there. So I usually start with that question, but in terms of the book, we start with the question around, “how do your idols reflect your gifts?” I think that’s always a really concrete one of thinking about the top five people you admire, writing down five things you like about each one of them, and then realizing in those 25 traits total that you write down, there’s a very good chance there’s a lot of gifts in there that you have in yourself.

So like thinking about those questions, I’m also a big believer in one of the chapters is “what does your bookshelf say about you?” So really looking at the books that are on your shelf, and what does that say about your unique gifts and what stuff you are good at? Because you are once again, always drawn to folks that have similar talents to you and similar gifts as you. So really looking almost as if your bookshelf is holding up a mirror to what you’re uniquely good at. And those are sort of, those are like three little intro questions that tell me a lot about a person quickly.

Jack Born: One thing that I’ve noticed over the years is that it seems to me, this might be changing a little bit these days, but it seems to me that the online course building space tends to attract people who lean a little bit more heavily towards the introvert side, and I was wondering for people who – Have you worked with clients that would say, “Okay, even though you’re a little bit introverted,” like, “you can still put your genius out “into the world.” And if so, what are some tips for someone who’s a little bit on the introverted side?

Kelly Trach: Yeah, that’s a great question. I always think it’s important to like lean into your authentic personality and not try to change yourself or be a different way because you’ll always, you’ll do so much better if you just show up as who you really are and not try to force yourself into doing something you don’t want to do. For my more introverted clients, I mean, firstly, I am like a big extrovert, so I can’t personally speak to this (chuckling) and I like, I’m happy to like be online and show my face and all that kind of stuff. But for my more introverted clients, I always think about like really, I always tell people, the only right way to build a business is the way that feels good for you. Not just what I say or what other people say. So really leaning into what feels intuitively best for you. Some people that looks like writing blog posts versus making podcast content. Or maybe that looks like posting more like quote-based content on Instagram versus something where you’re always showing your face, but really thinking about what feels most intuitively correct for you and leading into the things that you’re good at and just leading from that essence in your business versus just trying to do it like how everybody else is doing it.

Jack Born: One of my best friends is a guy named Andre Chaperon. And he, for anyone who hasn’t heard of his name, he is an email copywriting genius. One of his courses, he’s rebranding it now, but he originally was best know for “Autoresponder Madness”, and so he fits that example that you’re talking about perfectly where he’ll write brilliant, long form blog posts. He’ll write incredible well-researched emails, but it’s a challenge to get him, I’ve gotten him on a few recordings. These weren’t even technically podcasts. And I think he’s actually stood up and spoken at one event, but it was super painful for him to do. But he’s living proof that even someone who is extremely introverted can set up the rules of the game however works for him or her. So I a hundred percent agree with you but glad to hear that. So one of the things I would love to know is how did you, how did you find your way into our world, the Deadline Funnel space? What part of your journey brought you to us?

Kelly Trach: Yeah, when I had switched over from just sort of doing live launching all the time, I really wanted to get into evergreen webinar marketing for my online courses. And Deadline Funnel had came recommended to me, and I was like, “oh, this is like game changing. These like, countdown timers,” and that’s essentially how I got into Deadline Funnel. That was years ago now. I would say at least two or three years, but yeah, it started with evergreen webinars. And then I had played around with a bunch of other things, like putting a tripwire on my quiz to have like, which ended up doing really well with Deadline Funnel powering that and powering that countdown. But that’s kind of how I started my journey with Deadline Funnel.

Jack Born: So after someone goes through your quiz, you’re presenting them with a low price offer. Can you give some tips because what I typically, I want to hear your thoughts, but what I typically tell people is to make sure that the trip wire offer is a really, really close match to what they’re opting in for. Do you want to take it from there and share the other tips that you’d found? 

Kelly Trach: Yeah, I would echo the exact same. It’s like a, it should just be like this perfect little like next step. So for example, my quiz is, you know, “What’s Your Genius?” And then because folks are taking the quiz to build the business based on their genius, it’s a discounted little ebook starter, quick starter guide on how you build out a digital business based on your genius, offered at a discounted rate for 15 minutes. So it just feels like that easy, like it should just be like an easy yes, and something that’s easy, easy no-brainer of that absolute perfect little next step at a cheap rate.

Jack Born: So what are your thoughts for someone who says, “But, you know, I want them to buy this other thing. I don’t want them to buy this $7 or $19 or $29 thing and that just completely scratch their itch. You know, I want to deliver value, but at the same time I want them to continue to go further in this journey with me.” Are there any suggestions that you have in terms of how you structure the tripwire so that it delivers value for what they’re getting, but really encourages them to continue further?

Kelly Trach: Yeah, I definitely understand that feeling. That’s kind of how I had felt in the beginning thinking like, “well, my best products are like my more expensive courses where I pour like everything into it. It’s the whole, like A to Z of everything. I feel like I should just only offer this.”

Yet, I’ve really noticed that it’s been a really good warmup and a good intro of like, say for example, somebody buys something from me and they’re like, “oh, I got a lot of value for 17 bucks from this Kelly Trach girl, and this really helped me.” And it usually just gives people that, it’s just like buying something small and making sure that the customer, all customers are different. I’m okay jumping into something expensive from somebody that I really know, like, and trust, but all customers are different. And I found that a lot of folks have come with me along the journey over time, start off with something small, where they tested the waters, got to know me, got to make sure that I deliver on, deliver value for money, which is so important from the eyes of the customer. So it kind of just took a little bit of a mindset shift of just realizing that you’re, it’s not a sprint, like it’s a marathon. And people move at different rates in terms of purchase behavior and starting with something to warm them up can really nurture people over time. And remembering that even if you offer something small, it doesn’t mean that people aren’t going to buy your big thing later. It just might ease them in slower over time, and it’s a little bit more of a natural progression.

Jack Born: One last question. Can you share how it has shifted your business going from just initially launching a product or course to also adding in evergreen into the mix?

Kelly Trach: It’s shifted a lot in terms of just freeing up my time mostly, to focus on some of the bigger projects that I’d say I really wanted to do. I’d say I would almost call it like tier two of my vision and my goals.

For example, I would not have time to write a book and become a published author if I was still doing like endless one-on-one work and also like live launching courses all the time. But shifting stuff, putting it on evergreen, funneling folks to buy courses over my one-on-one services, it just frees up my time more than anything. And it lets me kind of live out bigger dreams and other sort of ambitions that I have.

Jack Born: Anything else that you want to share about your, actually let’s talk where can people sign up to get your books? Should they go to Amazon and pre-order it, or do you have a special page that you want to direct people to?

Kelly Trach: Yeah. Thank you for asking. At KellyTrach.com/books they can see all the links for Canada, America and international in terms of all the retailers. It’s available wherever books are sold. Because it’s on pre-order, there’s a special bonus. If folks pre-order, it’s a five week, live group coaching program with me to make sure that once they get the book, that they a hundred percent leave at the end of the month, knowing exactly what their genius is and how to take actionable steps from that. And we work through everything together so that everybody is super supported and feels confident. So that’s all at KellyTrach.com/books.

Jack Born: Okay. So this was fantastic. I really appreciate you joining me today. And thank you for sharing your tips about finding your genius and about creating quizzes and the power of using quizzes for your list building. This has been really, really enjoyable.

Kelly Trach: Yeah, well, thanks so much for having me, Jack. It’s been a pleasure. I really appreciate it.