December 28, 2021

Nick Stephenson is a bestselling fiction and non-fiction author who also teaches other authors and online entrepreneurs how to find their first 10,000 readers.

In today’s interview, I interview him about using an evergreen 3-video funnel to sell his online course, “Your First 10k Readers” – and how Deadline Funnel is an integral part of that.

Watch the video of my interview with Nick or read the transcript below!


Your First 10k Readers Deadline Funnel


Jack Born: Hey, this is Jack Born. I’m the founder of Deadline Funnel, and with me is Nick Stephenson of Your First 10k Readers. Hey, Nick.

Nick Stephenson: Hello. How are you doing? Thank you for bringing me on the show.

Jack Born: Well, listen, it’s great having you here. I’m really excited about this case study. So you are one of my very first case studies, and I use your results on our blog, in my webinars. And first of all, I wanna thank you for being one of the first people to just reach out to me and say, “I’m getting amazing results with Deadline Funnel” and to be willing to share. And so when I thought about putting together a course, going deep into how to create evergreen funnels, you’re the first person that came to mind. And so thank you very much for pulling back the kimono even further and showing us what you got. So why don’t you first start by telling us, remind everyone about your business, who you serve and take us through the short version of life before Deadline Funnel then after it ’cause I wanna make sure that we have time to show exactly how you’re using it in your business.

Nick Stephenson: Okay, so my business is essentially courses and other tools, software, et cetera, for authors. Being an author myself, I kind of went through the rigmarole of trying to figure out how to not only write the books, but they can grow an audience and then sell stuff to them. And all the technological nightmares that comes with it. Because as everyone knows if you’re watching this is you decide to start a blog or set up a video or something. And there’s like 15 hundred thousand different things that you have to do. So I kind of worked through all that myself and then decided to put together some course material to help other authors do the same. And the product of that was my first course, which is Your First 10k Readers, which is designed to help authors grow an audience, grow an email list, and then teach them how to sell effectively. ‘Cause authors we’d like to write the books and sit in our little writing cave and not talk to anybody. And for a lot of people the concept of trying to sell something that you’ve put all this creativity into it’s a very different mindset to get into. So kind of showing people how to get past that and then how to do the mechanics of it and the principles behind it. So that’s your first.

Jack Born: I would imagine that a lot of them, before they realized the reality, have sort of a “Field of Dreams” type of mentality. Write it, and they will buy.

Nick Stephenson: That’s exactly the terminology some people use, yes. Unfortunately, it’s not the case. So the whole course is designed to educate people on what the reality is and then teach them the methods that I’ve used and other people have used to boost their career. So it’s sort of like list-building and launching concepts, but aimed specifically at self-published authors, so.

Jack Born: Right, so even authors that are putting their books on Amazon, it’s not just “put it on Amazon and people will find you because it’s the world’s biggest store”.

Nick Stephenson: It’s kind of like having a product and then just listing it on Google and expecting sales to come in. It’s not going to happen. So it’s taking the concept of what you have to do as an author to build an audience. And then once you’ve got that audience, what to do with it, to actually get some sales.

Jack Born: When you first came on my radar and you said what great results you were getting, I checked out your website, and I was very happy to see that one of my favorite authors, Russell Blake, was one of your students. And the guy is just a machine. I think he’s written 55 novels, complete novels in 60 months, I mean, just a machine.

Nick Stephenson: Yeah, he does at least a book a month. So he was interested in learning how to launch them more effectively, ’cause what he’d do is his success comes in no small part from the quality of his writing, but also the frequency. So he’s putting out a book every month. Dedicated, hardcore writing schedule. But what he wasn’t doing at the time was actually launching the book beyond just putting it on Amazon. So we talked, and we worked out a system where we could introduce like a launch process to get his readers really excited about it and then get them to buy on launch day. Because otherwise you kind of, you put a book on Amazon, some people are gonna buy it straight away, but most people won’t know it’s out yet, or most people won’t know what it is. So you’ve got to really get your readers excited about the new launch. So that’s what we did with Russell, and that kind of informed a big chunk of what the course is about: building the email list, yes, but also how do you launch books? Have you sell your back list of titles, you know? Keep launching your existing books to new people all the time? Yeah, so it’s – had some great results.

Jack Born: So before Deadline Funnel, you were doing your own launches. Although you were getting, you had success, you had the suspicion that this could be done a lot more easily, and there’s gotta be a “set it and forget it” type of way. So you found Deadline Funnel. Why don’t you take it from there and just give us like the short version and then we can jump into exactly how you use it in your business ’cause that’s evolved over time.

Nick Stephenson: Sure, I think I was quite lucky in so far as I wasn’t the first person in the world to launch a course, so I could see kind of what other people had had done and a very popular way at the time and kind of still as well is people will do a manual live launch of their course, maybe twice a year, which is great. The downside being that if you’ve only got one course, then for 10 months of the year, you’re not bringing in any income, which means you kind of put all your eggs in one basket and everything is all about the launch. Once or twice a year everything is hanging in the balance with that launch. So if you mess up or you wanna try something new and you’re too scared in case you mess up, that kind of puts a bit of a dampener on exploring new avenues and growth.

Jack Born: A/B split testing is kind of challenging to do in a launch.

Nick Stephenson: Well, exactly, yes.

Jack Born: And if you learn something, you probably don’t get the full benefit of it until six months later when you do it again.

Nick Stephenson: Yeah, exactly. So coming into this, I knew that I didn’t want to have that model. I wanted to have something that allowed me to have new customers and revenue coming in all the time. So I very much had something like Deadline Funnel in mind when I first started. Even though I didn’t know it existed at the time, I wanted that software to be there. And actually yours was the first and only that I found that actually worked without having to do something each week. So before Deadline Funnel, I launched the course first time. And then the month afterwards, all the stragglers who missed out, I launched it privately to them. And it was all done manually, completely live and extremely stressful (laughs) because doing it live – The way I do it is, I’ve tried to plan out the emails like two weeks in advance, but find that I can’t do it or I don’t want to do it, the excitement isn’t there. But when I’m doing a live launch, I can sit down, and I can write great emails that really work because it’s like on the seat of my pants, this is what I’m doing. So the way that I get great results is by having that kind of fear. It’s like, “I need to write this email today. It needs to be good”, so it ends up being good, which leads to a lot of stress. And I knew that I didn’t wanna have to do that kind of thing every single month, so after the live launch had finished, what we did was we took all the material that I’d written, all the links, everything, and we essentially integrated it into Deadline Funnel so that we could create what is essentially a live launch from the perspective of the lead, but have it running all the time without me having to manually interact with it. So it’s like, “this is the dream”, and then we had to go build it out. And that’s where Deadline Funnel came in.

Jack Born: Awesome, awesome. So I know you have some things that you want to show from your screen. Why don’t we go ahead, and if you hover over the Zoom console you can choose to share your screen and then we’ll take a look.

Nick Stephenson: I am on it.

Jack Born: I believe that from the last peek that I got at your Infusionsoft account, I believe that the way that you’re using Deadline Funnel and the way you’ve structured it has evolved over time.

Nick Stephenson: It has. That’s another benefit of the evergreen processes that you can see what’s happening in real time. So if you notice that when you did the live launch, if you’ve got a 5% conversion rate, and then when you start running the evergreen one you’re only getting three, you can make tweaks on the fly and then see how that works. So you can kind of test it as you go; make changes. And then there’s no massive catastrophe if you have to change something again. So on the screen here is an example of some pre-launch content. So the three video kind of process that I think a lot of people are familiar with. Send people essentially three videos that outline the concepts that you’re gonna teach them in the course and give them some really good value and then lead them into a sales pitch later on down the line. And so these are the same videos we use for the live launch. And what we did was we just took the email sequence and the videos and put them into Deadline Funnel so that people would go through it in the same way they would do if it was live. And they’d all get like a countdown and a deadline, so that it would close for them as though it were a live launch. So I can show you behind the scenes. Just let me know what kind of thing…

Jack Born: So let me ask you a quick question. So I know some people will be familiar with what should be in each of these three videos. And when I say should, I mean, best practices. Let’s talk about what you did. If you had to summarize video one does this, video two does this, video three does this, how would you just quickly summarize what those videos are designed to do?

Nick Stephenson: The way I do it is- before I make the videos, I do some research. So I survey my audience, and I ask them a really open question. Now I just say, “what’s your number one struggle with X?” So for this course, “Your First 10k Readers”, the question was, “what’s your number one struggle when it comes to marketing your book and making sales?” And I would get essays and treaties and hundreds of words back from people via email telling me their life story and everything they’re struggling with. And I took these hundreds of replies, and I narrowed them down into five categories and then took some key concepts from what people had said. And so that the first video is all about talking to people about these are the top five struggles that people have when it comes to growing an audience, marketing a book and making sales. And then I say, “throughout the video series, I’m gonna show you a process that’s gonna help you overcome each of these five issues.” So the research really shapes the video series. So video one, I showed them “here are the top five struggles. Here is an introduction to my process that will help you overcome them.” And then in videos two and three, I take each one of those five top struggles, and then specifically say, “right, you use the process to overcome this struggle.” So let’s say your major struggle is getting readers to notice you, you would use this process to get more exposure on Amazon and also build your email list. Or your number one struggle would be “I don’t know how to sell”, and I’d say, “you’d use this process to grow an email list, and this would be the process you would use to build excitement for a launch”, for example. And I’d go through those things over the three videos. Then after that, I’d say, “I’ve introduced you to the concepts. If you want me to take you through it in much more detail, you know, step one, step two, steps three, leave nothing unturned, then the full course is available for you, and it’s closing down. It’s open now. It’s closing down in five days or six days.” And that’s when Deadline Funnel kicks in and the person gets their own sort of personalized countdown based on when they opted in in the first place. So that’s it in a nutshell.

Jack Born: Gotcha, and okay, can you go into a little bit of detail about some of-  how you transition from the three videos, which may feel like teaching, and in fact you are teaching, but you’re also teaching with the intent to pre-sell and lay the groundwork for the course that you’re selling. You’re not just teaching random concepts. ‘Cause number one what is what they told you they really want, but the other thing is that it’s still, it’s only increasing their desire for what’s coming next. But how do you make that transition in the emails or the videos or both?

Nick Stephenson: Well, it’s really easy, actually. I think it’s just a case of getting out of that mindset that a lot of people have. The mindset being, “people don’t want to buy something from me”. A lot of people who are selling things online or anywhere really have this mindset that if you’re trying to sell something, that you’re trying to trick somebody out of their money; that’s what’s holding people back. So what I do in my videos is the first thing I say is, “Hey, I’m gonna be releasing some paid training in a few days, but first I’ve got some video training for you to see if the full training is right for you. I’m gonna teach you X, Y, and Z, then I’m gonna tell you about the paid course.” And I just say that at the beginning of each video. People appreciate the transparency, and there’s no surprise or anger when the sales pitch comes along ’cause I’ve been telling them about it for a week. It’s hardly a surprise.

Jack Born: And I think an addition by doing that, this is just my theory, but my theory is that by letting them know that you have a paid training course, they don’t feel like- they can put off that decision, but for now I’m gonna milk this information for as much as I can because here’s a free video series, so let me try to get as much info as I can.

Nick Stephenson: Exactly. I get comments from people, emails saying, “I went into this determined not to buy anything from you, but now I have. And I just signed up.” And they’re really happy. They are over the moon that they’re thanking me for allowing them to give me money. It’s that kind of a result is awesome.

Jack Born: Something that I just wanna mention and then we’ll get into some of these other tabs that look really juicy is- I say this. It’s something that was taught to me. I heard from John Carlton, legendary copywriter, and his attitude was, is: if you believe in your product, you believe in your service, if your prospects are better off having bought your product or service, then it’s not only your obligation to your family and your bank account and yourself, but it’s your obligation to them to sell as hard as you can within the boundaries of ethics, but to really push hard. So a place where I keep reminding myself of that is sending the three emails on the last day. Like there’s still a part of me that feels like, “ugh, are people going to not like me?’ Like, there’s that, we could go into my upbringing just like, “oh, you don’t do that. You’re not pushy.” But people are better off buying your course. And so I think what- it’s a little bit, I think it’s challenging for people when they’re first starting out because there is that doubt and there’s no proof to fight it, but if you look at the testimonials that are on your site or the testimonials on my site, the feedback that you’re getting and I’m getting and other clients are getting it, when you see how your stuff, talking about you, how your stuff is changing people’s lives, that’s gotta be some additional incentive or at least make it a little bit easier for you to aggressively say, “Look, I’ve got a paid course. It’s worth it.”

Nick Stephenson: Yeah, I’ve got two examples of that mindset issue. The first is exactly what you said, having a responsibility to sell. I like to compare that to going out to a restaurant for a meal, okay? Imagine, you go in. It’s a birthday party. You go sit down. There’s maybe 15 of you at the table. And then the waiter doesn’t come. Or they take your food order, but they don’t offer you drinks. They didn’t offer you champagne. It’s all about context. You don’t just walk up to someone in the street and offer to sell them champagne. That would be weird. That would be sleazy and annoying. But when you’re in the right context, the restaurant, the birthday party, if the waitstaff don’t offer you the champagne, don’t offer you the drinks menu, don’t even take your order, e.g, don’t sell, everybody loses. And that’s this kind of example here. And the second one is looking at the stats, the average sort of open rates for emails, it could be 15% or 20%. So four out of five people aren’t opening each email you send, so why not email five times on the last day? It- you don’t have to be scared as long as each email is offering some sort of value in itself, people will appreciate getting emails from you. So just bear in mind.

Jack Born: So do you have, I’m hoping the answer is yes. You have time to go through some of these tabs a little bit.

Nick Stephenson: Yeah, let’s do it. So I’ve got some Infusionsoft tabs open here. I’m assuming people will be vaguely familiar with Infusionsoft.

Jack Born: Yeah, I’ll help translate this to other systems. So if you don’t use Infusionsoft, what we’re showing, what I want you to get out of this is the concept and the strategies and some tactics behind it, but any truly, most modern email service providers, CRMs can do this. Some do it, you know, there may be one wrinkle here or there that would be hard to replicate, but the majority of what you’re gonna see, you’re gonna be able to do. So let’s go ahead and dive in.

Nick Stephenson: Sure, so as I mentioned earlier, when somebody opts in for the video series, they’ll be sent three videos. And after those videos have ended, they will be sent the sales sequence. So imagine a two week period. The first week is all about the preview content, the three videos. the second week is all about selling the paid course. So they’ve had all the teasers. They’ve had all the preview stuff, and then in the second week, we’re moving on to, “do you wanna buy the full thing?” And the flow chart, the Infusionsoft campaign on the screen might look a little bit complicated, ’cause there’s a lot of stuff in here that’s all about purchase goals and tagging and internal stuff that may be little interest to people. The main thing is is here, which is actually the email series itself. So this is nothing fancy. So in here, all we have is one email every day until the end of the sequence. On the last day, we actually, we have those three emails here, just a few hours apart. And then before that, it’s just one email a day. So when someone opts in, I send them a confirmation email. And about a minute later, I send them video one. Then the next day I remind them to go watch video one. Then I send them video two. Remind them to watch video two. Send video three. Remind them to watch video three. Then I send them, and this is where the transition comes in. On the final day of the pre-launch phase, it sort of ends here, I just send them a reminder about all three videos and then remind them again that I’m gonna be opening up the sales cart tomorrow. Then I send them a sales video. Then I just send them one email every day telling them about the paid course, but specifically on each of these sales emails, I focus on a specific benefit of why they should buy the course or a specific objection. So this email here, for example, is all about testimonials and results. So I share a video of a student who got some great results and I give some testimonials from the Facebook group. In other emails, I’ve actually got a preview module as well. So I take one of the classes out of the course, and I give it to them for free so that they can see what’s inside it. You can see it expired. It’s working. We’ll get to that later. So I send them a preview video. I talk to them about how people say “I can’t afford it”, so I have an email that’s all about how you can afford, how you can afford the course and I give them examples of, if you can improve your results by just this amount, you’ll earn this much money, which is way more than the cost of the course, for example. And it’s just a linear progression of emails, all of which is being kind of timed by Deadline Funnel because and I should’ve said this earlier, but when someone actually opts in for this video series, what’s happening on this page is they’ve got the opt-in box just here, where they can enter their email address. But what you can’t see in this box is there’s a little piece of code from Deadline Funnel that’s taking their email address here, and it’s sending it to Deadline Funnel to give them a deadline date. And then that data is sent into Infusionsoft so that every contact who goes through here is tagged and has their own deadline. So I can go in, and I can find someone who opted in yesterday, I can go into their contact record in Infusionsoft, and I can see what their deadline is. And then I can go into Deadline Funnel and see that it’s actually been synced into there as well so they’re being tracked by Deadline Funnel so that when they go to the sales page, they have a countdown timer, which is very cool. And if they’ve missed the deadline, what will happen is they will be redirected to a page that says that they’ve missed it. So in this case, I’ve missed the deadline. It sends me straight to the “Oops” page, which is very important because if you’re going on about a deadline for two weeks, obviously you need scarcity, some kind of deadline to really boost your sales. If you’re going on about this deadline for two weeks, and then you leave it open, people are gonna be pretty pissed. So this is a very important is when the countdown reaches zero, the page forwards on to a “Oops, you missed it” page. And before then, it has a countdown time displayed on the page.

Jack Born: Beautiful. Some questions I have for you. What do you do with folks that go through the sequence and don’t buy? Do you eventually recycle them back through?

Nick Stephenson: Yeah, we tag them with “non-customer”, and then what we do is later on, we will send them through a webinar for the same product. And the webinar is an autowebinar, an evergreen webinar, and the campaign looks like this. So it’s very, very similar. So someone’s joined my list. They’ve got the video series. they don’t buy. We tag them as somebody who hasn’t [bought]. And then we wait at least 30 days. And our system tells us when that time has elapsed. And as soon as they’re ready, we can send them through this webinar, which is very cool as well. I’ll see if I can get the-

Jack Born: And while you’re bringing that up, when in your sequence, and I think you said it was a two week sequence. So when in your two week sequence do you start talking about the deadline?

Nick Stephenson: Here.

Jack Born: Okay, so cart open.

Nick Stephenson: Yeah, so this one actually, that’s the sales video and then it’s kind of saying “the cart’s officially open” here. So I start talking about the deadline for the cart in this email. But actually behind the scenes, the deadline starts for them the minute they opt in. They just don’t see it. So I set a 14 day deadline, and then after seven days, I say, “Cart’s open. It’s closing in seven days”, by which point they are seven days away from their own personal countdown.

Jack Born: Beautiful. Beautiful. So take us back real quick to the webinar page. I think you wanted to show us the registration.

Nick Stephenson: Yeah, so say someone doesn’t buy the system will tag them as a “non-customer”. It’ll also tag them as someone who has recently been through a “10k Readers” promotion. And that tag means that they won’t be invited to another one while that tag is still on their profile. So after 30 days, that tag will automatically come off. So they’ll go back into an audience pool of people who I can promote to again, and I’ll promote to them this webinar here, or a similar one, which is an evergreen webinar, meaning I don’t have to do it live. It’s recorded. They go to the page. They can register here, and they can select a date and a time that suits them. They register, and then they drop into this sequence here. And again, this is very similar. They go to the webinar, which is dealt with here. So all this complicated stuff here is basically, have they gone to the webinar or not? You don’t have to worry too much about that stuff. But then, this is the important bit here, is once they finish their webinar, we have to tell Deadline Funnel that it’s time to start their new countdown. So they finish the webinar, so they’ve got that six or seven day sales process to come straight afterwards. This little box here is where we tell Deadline Funnel that’s happening. So what we do here is we use something called an HTTP post or so you might call it an API call or something.

Jack Born: A lot of them call it a webhook.

Nick Stephenson: Webhook or whatever it’s called. And this sends the person’s email address to Deadline Funnel so that Deadline Funnel can then send back  The deadline information, which is very, very useful. Which means that as soon as that’s been done, we’ve told Deadline Funnel “this person’s finished their webinar”- Maybe they came. Maybe they didn’t. You don’t care, but they finished. We now start the deadline process. So they’re tagged in this box here, and then they move on to the follow-up sequence, which again is just a linear line of emails. In this case, we don’t send them the pre-launch content because they’ve had the webinar. We just send them the cart open emails with a slight change. We actually put the replay in. So we put a replay to the webinar in those emails. And then it’s just the same thing. It’s, you know, talking about the objections, talking about the key benefits and then closing the cart on the last day. So, someone doesn’t buy, later on we send them through an autowebinar. If they don’t buy from that, we might send them to an affiliate product. We might send them to a different product of ours. We might put them through the video series again after a year. We found that 50% of our sales come from people who didn’t buy the first time around. And when we realized that, we figured “let’s create some sequences where we can promote the same product in a slightly different way and send non-buyers through it.” And we found that the conversion rate, while lower than a first-time lead, was still significantly high. So it was, kind of added 40% to our sales by doing that. So it was pretty epic.

Jack Born: Well, and that- it sure is epic because if you’re buying the leads through, say Facebook advertising or some other form of getting people into that first leg of your funnel, there’s no additional costs now that you’ve built it. There’s no additional costs by sending them through the webinar sequence. There’s no additional costs sending them back through the video sequence. So yeah, your conversion rate for that third trip through one of your sequences may be lower. It may not be acceptable, like that wouldn’t be an acceptable conversion rate for possibly the first leg of your funnel for people who are in; they’re hot. They’re interested. But, you’re still working on that first cohort of people that came through and so it’s just pure profit.

Nick Stephenson: Exactly. We actually found with doing an autowebinar like this one, sending people here, because they have to opt in for it, the conversion rate can actually be higher than it was before. But you may end up with fewer people going through it because they have to opt in. We do have sequences where we just send them like sales emails, in which case the conversion rate is lower. But when they opt in for something, we found that the webinar actually converts slightly higher than the video series, although we can’t get as many people through it. So the video series is still a little bit more profitable overall.

Jack Born: Wow. You’ve dropped some big knowledge bombs during our conversation here. This is terrific. Is there anything about this machine that you’ve created that I haven’t asked, but maybe I should?

Nick Stephenson: Well, I think the key thing is- it’s a bit, it is an effort to build this stuff out, especially if you’re not like an Infusionsoft expert yourself, but once you have, and it’s working, something that we do is we just take this entire campaign here and we duplicate it and we fill it with affiliate links and then we give it to our affiliates. So in this case with Joanna Penn, we said, “Hey, we did a live webinar a few months ago. Should we make it evergreen?” And then you can promote this to your audience on your website whenever you like. So we take our own webinar here, which is just me talking, and I duplicate it and just tweak it a bit and put mine and Joanna’s video in there and that’s a funnel that someone else can promote themselves. So we end up getting a ton of affiliate traffic through as well. And our affiliates are really happy that they can promote a webinar anytime they like. They can put it in their autoresponders. They can put it on their websites, pop ups. That’s something we just started doing. And again, it’s all tracked with Deadline Funnel.

Jack Born: So are you, I don’t think that you’re doing this, but I want to clarify, are you creating- for your major affiliates, are you doing a webinar with each one and then giving them that funnel to promote?

Nick Stephenson: Yeah. I mean, we’ve already done the webinars previously. So let’s say one of the ways you wanna promote your product is by doing a webinar. A lot of people do webinars. They’re very powerful. And for example you’ve done stuff with ConvertKit before. That’s an example. Let’s say you take the recording of your Deadline Funnel webinar with ConvertKit, and then you say, “Hey, ConvertKit, I’ve made this into an evergreen webinar for you, that you can now promote this whenever you like. Put it in autoresponders. Put it on your website.” They then have a source of evergreen income for them as well. Whether or not they would want to do that is another question, but the mechanics are there. So for our top five affiliates, we can say, these guys account for 70% of our sales, our affiliate sales. We’ll do each one of them. We’ve done a live webinar with before, let’s just take the recording, tweak it a little bit, and then use an evergreen process like this to make it available for people to opt in anytime they like. And affiliates love it because they don’t have to do anything manual or live all the time, and they can put it in their sequences and they’re just earning revenue all the time. We’re getting leads. We’re getting revenue. They’re getting revenue. Leads are getting great, great education, and they’re getting the course as well, so everybody wins.

Jack Born: So a few things I want to just mention real quick. You’re watching this, and, not you Nick, but so for the person watching this, you see what Nick has built out, and if you have this feeling of overwhelm in the pit of your stomach, just know that you can build the short, sort of junior version of this, get it up and running, because again, it’s not a launch like Nick was talking about. You don’t have to get everything right. You just have to get it going.

Nick Stephenson: Yeah, exactly.

Jack Born: You can add on additional pieces and then, so you can build your way towards this. Get results. Build more. Get results. Build more. The other thing is what Nick was just talking about was, yes, if you look back on all the work that will have gone into creating a machine like Nick has created, you’re gonna look back and think, “Wow, that was a lot of work,” but you can then get additional benefit out of it by taking what you’ve already created, duplicating 80% of it, 90% of it, and then either adding that as a different leg to your existing funnel that people can go through to promote the same thing and get even more sales with no additional extra costs or use it as a way to get affiliate / joint venture traffic in as a consistent source of new leads just as Nick was explaining. So you’re taking what did take some time to build, but you’re getting as much out of it as you can. You’re taking what you’ve already got and really leveraging it.

Nick Stephenson: Sure. I mean, for anyone who’s watching this and they’re looking at the Infusionsoft complicatedness and just screaming and running for the hills, while Jack was talking I just built out what this looked like in the beginning. So, I mean, this is after a year’s worth of tweaking, right? So this is for me, but when I first started, the sequence looked like this. That was it. Someone opts in. They’re triggered in Deadline Funnel. I send them emails, and then they buy it or they don’t. And that was it. That took like five seconds. And then all you have to do is put the emails in, and you’re good to go. So you don’t have to make it this complicated when you first start out or at all, if you don’t want to. The basics are right there, and they’re not too difficult that you can’t overcome it for sure.

Jack Born: Fantastic. Nick, you’ve been extremely generous with your time and your transparency. I wanna thank you very much for being on the call with us today. Thank you so much.

Nick Stephenson: My pleasure.